Real Life Healing

Zetta Thomelin
Hi, I am Zetta Thomelin. I am here today with Sheila Terry Bailey. Sheila and I worked together some years ago, and we're just going to talk a little today about her journey into recovery and triumph over some really challenging times. Sheila is, without doubt, one of the most inspiring women I have ever met, professionally and personally, an incredible story. And that's why I wanted to share it. So, Sheila, we first met sometime after you'd been contacted by Operation Yewtree in relation to the Jimmy Savile inquiry, which must have opened up wounds that you'd really tried to push down, I would imagine. Is that the case? What happened in that moment?

Sheila Terry Bailey
That's a bit of an understatement. It was definitely like opening up wounds I'd never spoken about, never mentioned to anybody. I mean, I was fifty-five years old when I got the letter. So I'd kept everything inside of me and it just... I used to call it a can of snakes. It wasn't a can of worms -it just went crazy.

Sheila Terry Bailey
The reports I gave to the police, um, I ended up doing three different county police interviews. Surrey, Hampshire and London. It just went crazy. And I can remember, when I got the letter from the police, I was shaking so much when I read it. I can remember when I did actually read it a little while later, because I couldn't read it all at first, thinking, if that was my children, what would I do?

Zetta Thomelin
Yeah. Yeah.

Sheila Terry Bailey
And that's what made me contact the police, and then open up that can of snakes.

Zetta Thomelin
Isn't it interesting how we can fight for someone else in a way we often can't fight for ourselves, particularly in situations like that? If it's happening to someone else, you think -but when it's you, it's so much harder. When I think about people like Jimmy Savile, it's like they do this thing of trying to make you feel special, and then they exploit it. And that leaves you with really complex feelings, doesn't it? And I think that happens whether the person is famous or not.

Zetta Thomelin
It's how those kinds of predators operate, isn't it?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Yeah, definitely. And that's what he did with me when he came to Duncroft. I was like the special one, first of all being taken to the Clunk Click shows at the BBC and things. And then all of a sudden it stopped, for some reason. I don't know why, and I just broke. I started running away. I didn't want to be there anymore.

Zetta Thomelin
And of course, this start in life, with that awful experience with him, led to really tough times for you. Early experiences like that influence life. You had tough times, further assaults, experiences with drugs, and ultimately a short spell in prison. Incredible tough times. But I actually want to focus on the triumph over that, because you've come through all of it to become somebody else. You've fought back. You weren't going to be defined by it. You are a mother to lovely daughters, with grandchildren with whom you have a great bond. So what was the turning point for you?

Zetta Thomelin
When things were really tough, when did that turn around for you?

Sheila Terry Bailey
It was getting that letter, because I'd done so much prior to that. I always sort of knew there was something different or wrong with me, and then getting that letter, it's like I just said about my children.

Zetta Thomelin
So that was the catalyst. You'd had some kind of support and therapy before, but this was the point at which life really changed direction for you.

Sheila Terry Bailey
Yes, big time. The only way I could explain what was in my head, you know how they say you get two voices in your head? I must have had thousands of voices in my head, with all these thoughts and feelings coming back to me, because I knew what I was going to have to do after doing some of the interviews with the police and opening up completely. I'd never done that with anybody.

Zetta Thomelin
That must have been so scary, really. And what courage.

Sheila Terry Bailey
I don't know how I got through it. I think, in hindsight, looking back on it, I wasn't as aware of my emotions as I am now. So I can remember being able to go into, like...

Zetta Thomelin
We do talk about dissociation. It's classic for people with trauma to dissociate, you distance yourself from emotion. I remember when we were working together, you were saying you wanted to be able to cry.

Zetta Thomelin
And now you can, you know. And it's part of that process, holding the emotion through. I guess it's too scary, isn't it? It's like a fear that the dam might break and you might not stop. When we worked together, I remember a key moment: I sat down and wrote a story about you, focusing on all the amazing things I had learned about you. That you'd worked with addicts trying to help them recover, that you'd done some training to help addicts, that you were going into a homeless shelter on Christmas Day and cooking food. You were doing all these things. You fought to keep your children during really difficult times in your life, and to be a good mum to them. And I remember thinking that you'd given back to a society that I felt had not been there for you.

Zetta Thomelin
And you'd done this with incredible courage. I was very struck by your courage. So I wrote this piece about you -about three thousand words -and then you sat back with your eyes closed, and I read it out to you. I wrote it in the third person: "I want to tell you about a woman I know. This woman is incredible; she did this and she did that." And I will never forget the moment when you opened your eyes and said, "Oh my goodness, that's me." Because when we're in our heads, we see all the suffering, the difficulty, and what we've got wrong, this negative bias. And I wanted you to see the woman that I saw: this courageous, strong, incredible woman who'd come through really tough challenges to live an amazing life, bring up children, have grandchildren, and have relationships with them. I remember wanting to give that to you.

Zetta Thomelin
And your response to that was really heartwarming to me. Do you remember that moment?

Sheila Terry Bailey
I do. I do. It was a shock, yeah, it was a shock. It was like seeing myself in a completely different light to how I'd always seen myself.

Zetta Thomelin
It's something that I think really helps us sometimes, to step outside ourselves and see what someone else sees, something very different to what we think we see. And I remember you asked me for a copy of it to give to your children, to help them see you as more than just "Mum." And -I didn't know at the time -it ended up in my book. What's really exciting is that moment with your children where they start to see you as more than just "Mum," because I think that's a really important moment, especially when someone's struggled so much.

Zetta Thomelin
This leads us to now, really. I remember you said you'd been approached by a podcaster, and I thought -wow, this is your moment to have your say publicly. It's a way of getting your power back, isn't it? To tell your story, to have your say. But I was also a little scared, because I thought, oh gosh, I want them to treat her right. But you did it. It was a huge success. How did that feel?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Well, when I'd done the podcast, I had the message for a couple of months before I answered Sean. I was like, oh goodness, who is this? What is this? Is it a scam or whatever? And I answered him -I'd never met him before -did the podcast. He came in, had a little chat to me, and he was so good. It was so good.

Zetta Thomelin
It was so sensitively handled. Obviously I saw it afterwards, and I thought -he got it right, didn't he? How many views has it had now?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Six and a half thousand.

Zetta Thomelin
That's incredible. Isn't it?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Yeah, and it's two and a half hours long, for goodness' sake!

Zetta Thomelin
So in a way, you're a voice for the other people who haven't spoken out, or haven't been able to, maybe they're still not alive, sadly, to speak out. You're a voice for them too, aren't you?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Definitely. And I've had quite a lot of people message me saying I've helped them with my story, that it's helped them open up. I've had some lovely feedback. And I've been recognised three times.

Zetta Thomelin
Gosh, that's amazing. A celebrity now! I think that's the thing, isn't it? If you tell your story, it helps someone else who hasn't been able to tell theirs, they feel understood; in a way, you're giving them a voice. And when they hear what's happened to you, it makes them feel not so alone. So, when we were working together, you were already writing your book, and then after the podcast, that's when it really came to fruition. You finally had your full say -Surviving Savile. Anyone in the world can now...

Zetta Thomelin
...read your story and hopefully be really inspired by it. Knowing you as I do, you're a beacon of hope to anyone who's had struggles, who's experienced abuse or drug issues or any of those things. You give hope that there's life after that. And you've got this incredible family relationship with your grandchildren. So how has it been to get the book out? It feels like the next stage on from the podcast, doesn't it?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Um, yeah. I mean, I didn't know it had happened. Sean had messaged me but I'd not seen the email. I was down at my fish pond when Victoria rang me and she said, "Have you read your email?" And I was like, "No." She said, "The book's out!" And there was me, down at the bottom of the garden by my fish pond. It's real. I am still pinching myself, because all my life I've written little snippets. My daughters always said to me, "You should write a book." And now it's done and it's out there, and anybody can read it. Fingers crossed, it helps.

Sheila Terry Bailey
Oh, I mean...

Zetta Thomelin
I don't think anyone could read your story and not be, firstly, very moved, and secondly, inspired. So what do you feel are the biggest changes in you over this period of time, where you've got your life to where you want it to be?

Sheila Terry Bailey
October 2013, just letting it all out, talking about it. Continuously. The only way I can explain it is: I feel like somebody's gone in through my throat, into my stomach, and taken out this great big heavy weight. Lighter.

Zetta Thomelin
Because I know you've had a lot of health problems over the years, do you feel physically a bit better? Because I think it weighs you down, doesn't it?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Definitely, on the mental side. I've certainly realised that when things were bad, just issues in life -the mental side of it really affects my body.

Zetta Thomelin
Yes. We can underestimate that mind-body connection.

Sheila Terry Bailey
Oh, big time.

Zetta Thomelin
It's something like twenty-five per cent of people with trauma have medically undiagnosed symptoms, pain and things they can't explain. And about fifty per cent of people with life trauma have pain of some sort. So if you don't give voice to it, it's going to find a way to express your distress, isn't it?

Sheila Terry Bailey
Yeah, because this morning I was a bit anxious about doing this. I can feel my feelings now, and where they should be. The back of my neck, I get it there.

Zetta Thomelin
Yes, in the back of the neck. It's expressing your discomfort. Mm-hmm. And yes, the biggest thing we can draw from this is that secrecy doesn't help; bottling things up doesn't help. And I think when it involves such a public figure as Savile, to get the recognition that you suffered and that you survived is really important, isn't it? Because it's happening so often now, we keep hearing about yet another, yet another, yet another. Ever since the whole Yewtree inquiry, there has been a constant stream of new revelations. And hopefully this means...

Zetta Thomelin
...young women and girls today are safer because of the battles that people like you, Sheila, have undertaken.

Sheila Terry Bailey
And men as well.

Zetta Thomelin
And men too. Yes, I am really sorry, I should have said that.

Sheila Terry Bailey
I'm thinking about the men as well. You know what I mean?

Zetta Thomelin
Yes, absolutely. Well, what a journey, and what a triumph! I am hoping lots of people read your book to really understand the depth of the journey you've been on. I didn't want to get into too much detail about that today, because I want to talk about your triumph, how incredible this journey has been for you. But it's been a tough one, and I would never underestimate how tough.

Sheila Terry Bailey
And can I just say as well, all this time, I'd had lots of psychotherapy, CBT counselling, all sorts over the years. But when I came to you and had the NLP hypnotherapy, that's when things started to change up here as well.

Zetta Thomelin
Oh, thank you. You didn't have to say that, but thank you.

Sheila Terry Bailey
I'm glad, I just wanted to let people know.

Zetta Thomelin
But you did the work. I can just point the way -you did the work. And you are just a shining beacon of hope to anyone, I think. And I am glad we stayed in touch. Every now and again you'll send me a little email and tell me how well things are going. I love that, because when you work with someone therapeutically, they go off and live their life and you never hear how the story develops and changes. You've kept in touch, and that's been lovely. And now it's very much in the public domain, I see things and think, oh, I know her! I know that celebrity -that's Sheila!

Sheila Terry Bailey
That's what my window cleaner said. He said, "I'm going to buy a book and get you to sign it, look, I know this famous lady!" Can I show my book?

Zetta Thomelin
Please do, yeah! So, that's you, that's...

Sheila Terry Bailey
Me on the front there. That was actually at Duncroft, with Duncroft in the background, and I think you can just about see his yellow Rolls-Royce there.

Zetta Thomelin
Which was what he did, he'd pick people up in the Rolls-Royce to make them feel special.

Sheila Terry Bailey
It's all part of his persona, wasn't it? Yeah. Very clever.

Zetta Thomelin
Yeah. And it was such a shock. I mean, obviously I didn't know anything about the abuse until it all came out. I used to watch Jim'll Fix It, I remember writing a letter to him. I wanted to meet some celebrity, I don't know who it was. Luckily, I didn't get picked. I thought, oh, what a shame I didn't get picked. And now I think I was one of the lucky ones.

Sheila Terry Bailey
Yeah. And that's why we thought it was so fantastic, there were these girls in this home, and this great big star comes in. Wonderful.

Zetta Thomelin
And that's it, isn't it, targeting people who need attention, who are feeling vulnerable, who aren't in a loving family setting. The most vulnerable people to target. And that's the most disgusting thing about it, homing in on the people who are going to be the most vulnerable, who need affection and to be made to feel special. It's shocking. And shocking that it still goes on today, sadly.

Zetta Thomelin
But I think people are wiser now. The more publicity we can give to exposing these behaviours, the more young women and young men can protect themselves. And hopefully one day, this won't be a story we need to tell anymore. So thank you, Sheila, for talking to me today. I'm just thrilled about how things are for you, with the family and everything. Thank you.

Sheila Terry Bailey
I'm grateful to you. Thank you very much.